Scott Roeder May Not Claim "Necessity" as a Defense to Terrorist Assassination

Motions were heard today in the terrorism trial of Scott Roeder. Carolyn Marie was in the courtroom and will post here analysis and comments soon. For now, we can tell you:

Change Of Venue - Denied The Defense had sought to change venue to another county (why they didn't have a venue study done is beyond us, or the results may not have been good). This was a LONG shot motion. No case in Kansas has ever been reversed for failure to grant a change of venue. Had the motion been granted then the trial would have been moved to another county in Kansas.

Motion in Limine on the Necessity Defense (State's Motion) - Granted Judge Wilbert gave an EXCELLENT analysis of the law in Kansas as to the common law defense of necessity. He granted the State's motion and ruled that Roeder will not be allowed to claim it was necessary to assassinate Dr. Tiller. We're sure Letch Leech will be whining soon. But the ruling was one based squarely on the law and not on what the antis would like the law to be.

The State tried to expand their motion to include the statutory defense of others and the ability to ask for a lesser offense instruction of voluntary manslaughter. Because those issues had not been briefed and the defense not been made aware of them the Court did not rule. However, his analysis of the "necessity" defense made it clear that the terrorist has a huge hurdle to meet if he has any hope of being allowed to use defense of others.

Scott Roeder May Not Claim "Necessity" as a Defense to Terrorist Assassination

Yup, Roeder plans on putting Dr. Tiller on trial

It would seem we now know why Scott Roeder's lawyers wanted Dr. Tiller's schedule. According to the AP, Roeder's lawyers are going to the necessity defense after all after explicitly saying otherwise when Roeder announced he'd use it when he confessed to the AP a couple weeks ago.

"For the Court to grant the State's motion to prohibit 'any evidence' in support of the necessity defense would be premature, and contrary to Kansas law," the defense wrote. "In addition, it would be rank speculation on the part of the state (and the Court if it were to grant said Motion) as to the purpose of any and all evidence that the Defendant may seek to introduce."

While the prosecution's motion refers to a decade old case settled by the Kansas Supreme Court that rules out necessity defense for trespassing, the defense says trespassing won't necessarily save lives but murder would. At the time, the Court stated allowing personal beliefs to justify criminal activity would "not only lead to chaos but would be tantamount to sanctioning anarchy." Allowing anti-choice militants to shoot abortion providers would certainly lead to both chaos and anarchy, especially since abortion is 100% legal and a constitutional right in the United States.

"It is inconclusive whether the lives of the unborn were spared as a result of the act of criminal trespass," they wrote. "In the instant case, the result of the alleged murder resulted in the termination of abortions being performed in the City of Wichita by the victim, Dr. George Tiller."

Defense attorneys noted the Supreme Court also said that whether "the necessity defense should be adopted or recognized in Kansas may best be left for another day."

Perhaps performed by Dr. Tiller, but it certainly didn't prevent any abortions, in spite of Roeder's insistence otherwise. The number of abortions in the US have dropped consistently since the 80s and have leveled off since 2000 due to better access to contraceptives, which is true worldwide, and outlawing or restricting access to abortion does not prevent it. The only thing accomplished by assassinating providers is to force women to have unsafe and illegal abortions. Want a necessity defense? How's this: unsafe abortions killed 70,000 women last year. Each year, 2 million babies and 536,000 women die in childbirth, most of which can be easily prevented. The US ranks higher than other industrialized countries in premature births and maternal and infant mortality rates. This rate is linked largely to poverty and being uninsured throughout a woman's life. Why not save those babies and women? Why kill abortion providers?

[Roeder] told The Associated Press on Nov. 9 that he shot Tiller to protect unborn children and he planned to present a necessity defense at his trial. He also said one of his two public defenders, Mark Rudy, had given him the "green light" to talk to the media about it.

But the following day, lead defense attorney Steve Osburn told reporters the necessity defense did not exist in Kansas law and the defense team did not plan to present that strategy.

It's not allowable under Kansas law, but they're still going to argue it. Hopefully, this will all be settled next month when these motions are brought up in hearings.

Yup, Roeder plans on putting Dr. Tiller on trial

Scott Roeder Wants Dr. Tiller's Schedule

We're not really sure what to think of this one. Scott Roeder's defense team filed a motion for discovery on Thursday that asks the Court to order the production of:

Any and all professional calanders, appointment books, records of scheduled procedures, or similar documents, either in electronic form or written form, or both, of the victim Dr. George Tiller, for the dates May 1, 2009 - June 30, 2009.

Our first thought was that Phill Kline had taken over the defense and was trying to get patient information again. Dr. Tiller was murdered on May 31, 2009 so the records for the month of May are really confusing.

The June records could be argued, we guess, as part of a necessity defense (i.e. there were abortions scheduled so this was necessary). That would be inconsistent with the comments from the defense attorneys however that they have told Roeder that was not a valid defense and they would not be pursuing it.

This may be nothing more than a "client control" motion. One that is filed at the behest of the client and the Judge gets to knock it down instead of the attorneys being the bad guys - but given the nature of this case we doubt that.

At this point we're bothered by the request - but - as we don't know the inner workings of the case we're going to withhold judgment. There may be a very valid reason for this request and if so then it should be granted. We're not dealing with Kline and his ilk so at this point, we're comfortable with the wait.

What are you thoughts? Post a comment and let us know why you think this request has been made.

Scott Roeder Wants Dr. Tiller's Schedule

Working on Page Load (updated)

We've noticed the site has started to load slow recently. Not sure what is causing it but we're on it. You can always find out what we're reporting on Twitter http://twitter.com/Roeder_Watch or on Facebook.

Update: We've found the problem. It's the pdfs of the motions. We're working on a way to get them to you without lagging the system.

Working on Page Load (updated)

Roeder Motion On Jury Qualification

We've previously reported on the motion filed by Roeder's defense team to restrict jury selection based on jurors views on the death penalty. We've obtained a copy of the motion and supporting brief. We're still going through them but wanted to get them out to you as quickly as possible.

(We've had to pull the documents due to a page lock error the script was causing. We'll get them back as quick as we can)

Roeder Motion On Jury Qualification

AP reports FBI received letter about Roeder (UPDATED)

According to the AP, a month before Dr. Tiller's murder, the FBI received a letter warning Scott Roeder planned on hurting Dr. Tiller or other providers.

The Federal Bureau of Investigation says that more than a month before Dr. George Tiller was shot and killed, it received an anonymous letter warning about the man now charged in the case.

FBI spokeswoman Bridget Patton says the April letter warned that Scott Roeder would physically harm Tiller or any other abortion provider.

The letter turned out to have been written by Mark Archer. He and his wife are in the midst of a bitter custody battle with Roeder over a child Roeder fathered.

Roeder has been charged with first-degree murder and aggravated assault in Tiller's May 31 killing.

Patton says the agency found no specific, credible threat in the letter.

The letter was sent by Mark Archer to the FBI who has commented on this blog about Roeder's concern for born children. We at Roeder Watch understand not following through on anonymous letters that do not give specific information concerning a crime. Of greater concern is that the FBI did not follow through on FACE violations carried out by Roeder at a Kansas City area clinic in May leading up to the murder. Violence is increasing at clinics across the country, and law enforcement is not routinely protecting women's rights throughout the country. On a more positive note, the Bellevue Police Department is working to prevent violence to Dr. Carhart. Dr. Carhart is under threat of legal action through Operation Rescue on similar trumped up charges as Dr. Tiller faced. This summer, Operation Rescue launched their "Keep it Closed" campaign which was attended by convicted domestic terrorists as well as several others who commonly traveled from out of state to harass Dr. Tiller and his patients.

UPDATE: The AP talked to Mark Archer concerning the letter.

AP reports FBI received letter about Roeder (UPDATED)

Scott Roeder Seeks Change of Venue (Updated)

On Tuesday, November 10th Scott Roeder's defense team filed a motion requesting a change of venue. We're going over the motion right now and will have more details soon. For now, here is an small portion of the argument from the "Brief In Support Of Motion For Change Of Venue."

In the instant case, the defendant is accused of shooting and killing an infamous lat term abortionist, Dr. George Tiller. Dr. Tiller was only one of a handful of licensed medical professionals in the entire country who was willing to perform 2nd and 3rd Trimester abortions. The victim was outspoken regarding his professional actions, and was aggressive in the defense of his livelihood. As a result, a large and strong contingent of anti-abortion opponents remained vigilant in a likewise aggressive manner, and the victim's abortion clinic, located in Wichita, Kansas served as the epicenter of the abortion protest/debate for decades. As a result, at the time of his death, r. George Tiller was the most well-known resident of Sedgwick County on a national scale.

As a result of his demise on May 31, 2009, the life and death of George Tiller was fully played out in both the local and natinal media. A candlelight vigil was held on the evening of his death in Wichita where thousands of individuals gathered to pay homage. All national media outlets, including network television, national daily publications, and major internet news sources ran stories detailing the events of the killing with utmost priority. The local media, which was fresh off the heels of covering the trial in which Dr. Tiller was accused of violating the abortion laws of the State of Kansas, examined the incident, as well as the involved individuals, with relentless scrutiny.

The death of George Tiller represented the confluence of controversial issues deeply ingrained into the mindset of multiple generations of Wichita residents. The point-blank shooting of the world's most famous abortionist, accomplished in a House of Worship, set against the backdrop of the heated, bitter debate which surrounds the act of human abortion.

The defendant, Scott Roeder, was arrested and charged within hours of the death of Dr. Tiller. Allegations surrounding the alleged political beliefs of the defendant appeared and were broadcast/printed immediately. Individuals who claimed to know the defendant were quoted, with inflammatory statements damming the defendant. AN overturned conviction of the defendant was revealed and detailed, and unsubstantiated aspersions were cast in the heat of the moment.

There is much more and we'll get it to you as soon as we can.

UPDATE: Here is the motion and brief for change of venue (we've had to pull the documents until we can find a way to post them that won't slow up the site)

Scott Roeder Seeks Change of Venue (Updated)

Scott Roeder would not kill a fly, a man yes but not a fly

In 1996 Scott Roeder was arrested after a sheriff's deputy found ammunition and a blasting cap in Roeder's car. His conviction was eventually over turned due to a Constitutional violation. Tim Hrenchir interviewed Roeder's father following that arrest.

If Roeder's father is correct (and as a father he's allowed to see his son through rose colored glasses) then there are more involved in the assassination of Dr. Tiller than just Scott Roeder. “Scott would not kill a fly,” his father said in the interview. “He won’t step on a worm. So how could he possibly, unless he was being used by somebody, be planning anything that would take human life?” (emphasis added)

You have to wonder who really got Roeder to pull the trigger.

Scott Roeder would not kill a fly, a man yes but not a fly

Domestic Terrorist (Sympathiser) Contacts Roeder Watch

First it was in the comments now we're hearing from a terrorist sympathiser via e-mail (the all caps is not for your eye sight, that's how it was written).

I AM VERY GLAD MR. ROEDER DID WHAT HE DID. HE PROTECTED THE LIFES OF MANY UNBORN CHILDREN

IF YOU WANT TO UPHOLD AHD SUPPORT A BABY MURDERER LIKE TILLER, I HOPE GOD FORGIVES YOU.

I SINCERELY HOPE THAT GOD FORGAVE MR. TILLER FOR ALL THE WANTON KILLING HE PERFORMED. I GUESS HE FORGOT HIS HIPPOCRATIC OATH OF FIRST, DO NO HARM.

I THINK MR ROEDER IS A HERO AND WILL CONTINUE TO BE TO MANY CHILDREN WHETHER THEY KNOW IT OR NOT.

I THINK HE IS A HERO. MR. ROEDER THAT IS.

SIGNED
ARMANDO M ACOSTA

Isn't it just great that we need to be forgiven for supporting Dr. Tiller but it seems to be okay to support a terrorist assassin. Wow, talk about being a hypocrit!

Mr. Acosta, you're entitled to your opinion . . . no matter how sick and twisted it is. But don't worry, you're not alone in your idiocy.

Domestic Terrorist (Sympathiser) Contacts Roeder Watch

National Organization for Women & Rachel Maddow on Roeder's confession

First, the National Organization for Women released a statement today urging federal action in light of Scott Roeder's confession to the AP.

"The absurdity of his defense is insulting and dangerous to women, but it also reveals his terrorist methodology using murder to accomplish his political goals," says NOW President Terry O'Neill. "It is precisely this unrepentant domestic terrorism -- and those who fund it -- that must be stopped or else we will see more clinic violence and people will be killed," said O'Neill.

NOW is calling on the Obama Administration and the Justice Department to treat this as domestic terrorism, and use every aspect of anti-terrorism laws to prosecute Roeder and to find and stop his funders. We urge the administration to freeze the assets of people or organizations, domestic and international, who helped fund and supported Roeder's anti-choice activities.

When we freeze Dave Leach's assets, could he maybe take an English class? None of us at Roeder Watch can finish anything he writes (we desire to keep our minds largely intact).

Terry O'Neill is an awesome woman. I've had the pleasure to meet her a couple of times in the last few months. I am glad NOW continues to inform everyone murdering abortion providers is terrorism. And, hey, now that Roeder has admitted to it, no one has to call him the "accused killer" any longer. Scott Roeder: Domestic Terrorist.

Rachel Maddow briefly covered this story tonight, showing pictures of three of the people who signed the latest "Defensive Action Statement" (aka Promotion of Terrorism Statement):

Visit msnbc.com for Breaking News, World News, and News about the Economy

National Organization for Women & Rachel Maddow on Roeder's confession

Roeder says "I don't have any regrets" about murdering Dr. Tiller (UPDATED)

(Link and quote updated below)

The AP released a more detailed article about today's interview with Scott Roeder in which he admitted to murdering Dr. Tiller.

Defiant and unapologetic, a man accused of shooting a Kansas abortion provider confessed to the slaying Monday, telling The Associated Press that he killed the doctor to protect unborn children. ...

"Because of the fact preborn children's lives were in imminent danger this was the action I chose. ... I want to make sure that the focus is, of course, obviously on the preborn children and the necessity to defend them," Roeder said.

"Defending innocent life — that is what prompted me. It is pretty simple," he said. ...

"No, I don’t have any regrets because I have been told so far at least four women have changed their minds, that I know of, and have chosen to have the baby," Roeder said. "So even if one changed her mind it would be worth it. No, I don’t have any regrets." ...

In rambling phone and jailhouse interviews shortly after his arrest in May, Roeder has said he would be pleased if others took action to stop abortion by any means necessary.

"Violence is not wrong in all situations, so if it takes that — then if it is done righteously — then, if it's done, it is OK," Roeder has said.

ter⋅ror⋅ism [ter-uh-riz-uhm]

–noun 1. the use of violence and threats to intimidate or coerce, esp. for political purposes.
2. the state of fear and submission produced by terrorism or terrorization.
3. a terroristic method of governing or of resisting a government.

When you use murder to convince women to carry pregnancy to term, you did not choose life: you terrorize people.

This is a bad defense, and it will fail. This will not empower wannabe domestic terrorists to embark on a full-blown reign of terror against American women and our medical doctors. This will, instead, send a disturbed man to prison for the rest of his life, and it will encourage others to sacrifice their lives to prison while they continue to terrorize women, our families, our friends, and our health care providers.

Also of note, I have heard supporters of Roeder say two women had continued their pregnancies due to Dr. Tiller's death. One of them, while being interviewed by a Norwegian paper, said Roeder's actions kept them from "saving more babies". Women simply went elsewhere, and sidewalk anti-choice militants couldn't shout at women and harangue them out of having an abortion at that time. It might seem like this man couldn't be called a "supporter" of Roeder, but since he was spending a lot of time with convicted domestic terrorists Jennifer McCoy (who attended Roeder's hearing) and Cheryl Sullenger, I stand by calling him a "supporter". At the very least, he's not sorry Dr. Tiller's dead; he's just sorry he can no longer terrorize women locally in Wichita.

Roeder says "I don't have any regrets" about murdering Dr. Tiller (UPDATED)

Roeder admits to killing Dr. George Tiller

According to the AP (linked through KWCH Wichita, Scott Roeder has confessed to killing Dr. George Tiller. He plans on using the so-called "necessity defense" at his January trial.

WICHITA, Kan. (AP) - Scott Roeder has confessed to the shooting of a Kansas abortion provider.

The 51-year-old Kansas City, Mo., man told The Associated Press in a telephone call from jail Monday that he plans to use the so-called necessity defense at his trial. Roeder contends the killing of Dr. George Tiller in May at a Wichita church was justified to protect the lives of unborn children.

His confession comes as abortion opponents across the nation release a new "Defensive Action Statement" arguing for the same force to protect the unborn as is justified to protect born children.

The 21 signers want jurors to be allowed to consider that defense at Roeder's Jan. 11 trial. Among the signers are Eric Rudolph, James Kopp and Shelley Shannon - all serving prison time for targeting abortion doctors.

He's been hinting at this for a long time, but he has finally said it.

This is NOT a confession for a guilty plea. As it appears, since he admitted it to the press, he is not going to change his plea. He plans on putting Dr. Tiller on trial, as we have long suspected here on Roeder Watch.

UPDATE: We found a longer article concerning Roeder's admission.

Roeder admits to killing Dr. George Tiller

eBay removes last items in aberrant auction

Last night, the "prolife Bible" and "Catechism" were the first items posted in the Auction for Cowardly Assassinating Providers. Within the last half hour, they were removed. eBay had said they "would look into them". Seems they saw them as what they were: justification and glorification of violence.

Do expect Roeder's groupies to continue trying:

"I am very disappointed in eBay," Dinwiddie said. "I thought that was the last bastion of free enterprise in America with no political viewpoint, but I see I was mistaken about that."

eBay removes last items in aberrant auction

Scott Roeder Auction Items - Take a Look For Yourself

Talking Points Memo got pictures of some of the items being auctioned on behalf of Scott Roeder before they got pulled.

Word is there are still a couple of items that won't be pulled due to their "religious nature." Not sure on that but we'll keep looking and reporting them when we find them.

Scott Roeder Auction Items - Take a Look For Yourself

eBay Auction for Scott Roeder Begins . . . Then Gets Pulled

Those wacky anti-choice folks must have thought eBay was just joking when it said that an auction to raise money for Scott Roeder would not be allowed. They have started posting items to try and raise money for Roeder. Luckily eBay appears to be on it and has started pulling the items. The Associated Press reports that "some of the more obscure items were still posted Monday morning." If you're on eBay and see some of this trash, make sure you use the report link to report an inappropriate listing so eBay can get it pulled.

eBay Auction for Scott Roeder Begins . . . Then Gets Pulled

Great Analysis of the Roeder - eBay - Auction - Publicity Stunt

Mike Hendricks of the Kansas City Star has a great analysis of the publicity stunt that was the eBay auction for Roeder. We've reprinted it below. Until it disappears into the internet archives, you can read it here.

Mike Hendricks: Roeder not another John Brown, David

Little David slew the mighty Goliath and held aloft the Philistine's severed head.

Rembrandt and Caravaggio painted the bloody scene from 1 Samuel. Now comes Scott Roeder, the man charged with killing George Tiller. Roeder recently submitted for auction an autographed copy of a cartoon depicting his own version of the story.

"Tiller" is written across the forehead of the slain warrior. And for the role of David?

It's not spelled out, and as there is that presumption of innocence in our legal system, I'll leave it for you to decide what Roeder had in mind.

But biblical comparisons aside, Roeder's supporters have yet another notion of who Roeder represents to them, despite his not-guilty plea in the murder of the Wichita abortion provider.

He's a modern-day John Brown, reflecting the fact many in the anti-abortion movement compare themselves to the 19th-century abolitionists.

"We liken him to that," said David Leach, when I reached the Des Moines abortion opponent by phone last week.

Leach, along with Regina Dinwiddie of Kansas City, had tried to organize an online fundraiser on Roeder's behalf. Last week eBay put the kibosh on it (though Dinwiddie has said the auction will go on).

My interest, however, was in the comparisons, which are all over the Internet, between Brown, the anti-slavery crusader, and Roeder, the abortion foe. True, both were zealous believers in a cause.

"But it isn't just that they believed in it," Leach said. "There were actual human beings who were suffering that both intervened to rescue."

Roeder has admitted nothing. But he donated three cartoons to the auction, the stated purpose of which was to raise money to pay an attorney who would argue that Tiller wasn't murdered but instead was the victim of justifiable homicide.

"In my writings, I've been calling it the necessity defense," Leach said.

Chances of a judge allowing that defense in a Kansas courtroom are about as remote as Leach and his compatriots being able to raise the big bucks it would take to hire a lawyer willing to employ the risky strategy.

Even Leach acknowledges that Kansas law allows lethal force only "when the harm you're preventing is unlawful." And despite claims to the contrary by abortion opponents, Tiller's conduct in performing late-term abortions was lawful, as far as the legal system was concerned.

In short, the eBay auction was a publicity stunt aimed at confusing the issue. After all, what Roeder stands accused of is an act of cowardice, not nobility.

One Sunday morning in May, an armed assailant shot an unarmed Tiller to death at point-blank range in a church.

Dressing it up otherwise doesn't change that fact, or that the person who did it is a common murderer and no more.

Great Analysis of the Roeder - eBay - Auction - Publicity Stunt

Foul Play Ruled Out In Death of Retired U.S. Marshal

The Wichita Eagle reports that an autopsy has been performed on Retired U.S. marshal Richard Schroeder and foul play has been ruled out. Mr. Schroeder died of natural causes.

Foul Play Ruled Out In Death of Retired U.S. Marshal

Dinwiddie tells eBay they're discriminating against her religion

"Dinwiddie’s lawyer sent a letter to eBay on Thursday saying that 'my client feels that your proposed course of action smacks of religious discrimination.'"

The Auction for Cowardly Assassinating Providers will go on, even on eBay, says Regina Dinwiddie. Why? Because she's not a country bumpkin who'll roll over when threatened. It doesn't seem eBay threatened anyone. Dinwiddie and the others involved in ACAP threaten and murder.

If your religion is to kill, the Constitution does not allow your free exercise thereof. We can't even marry two people; what makes you think you can kill?

Dinwiddie tells eBay they're discriminating against her religion

Former U.S. Marshall Who Protected Dr. Tiller Found Dead

The Wichita Eagle is reporting that Richard Schroeder was found lying his his driveway last night with head injuries. His death is currently being investigated and law enforcement has described it as "very suspicious."

"During his career as a U.S. marshal, Schroeder provided court-ordered protection for abortion provider George Tiller during 1991's "Summer of Mercy" anti-abortion protests.

For a significant part of Schroeder's career — first as a marshal and later as a private detective — he helped provide security for Tiller, a nationally known late-term abortion provider and perennial focus of anti-abortion protests and threats. Tiller was fatally shot at his Wichita church this summer.

Schroeder, who lived in Newton, also has operated a private investigation business in the Wichita area."

Former U.S. Marshall Who Protected Dr. Tiller Found Dead

Roeder Defense Team Files First Motion - Abortion Views and the Jury

Motions have begun to trickle into the courthouse for the trial of domestic terrorist Scott Roeder. The Wichita Eagle reports that the defense has filed a motions seeking to prohibit the state from removing a juror based on their anti-abortion views. (link no longer working)

From a defense side this is an excellent motion and one that we didn't expect - this soon. We don't think it will fly however. Anyone who is extremely pro-choice or anti-abortion to the extent that they can't give both sides a fair trial must be law be excluded. There is no way the judge can issue a black and white ruling like this. It's going to have to be decided on a case by case basis.

With the filing of this motion we expect to see more motions in the near future.

Roeder Defense Team Files First Motion - Abortion Views and the Jury

eBay stands by their rules while Roeder's friends stand by their assassin

From Judy Thomas at the Kansas City Star a few choice quotes about eBay not hosting the Auction for Cowardly Assassinating Providers (ACAP).

"These materials contain hate messages, glorify violence against abortion doctors who provide constitutionally protected medical services, and instruct on means of violence, including bombing, of abortion clinics."

Letter to eBay from Lee Thompson, attorney for the Tiller family, approved by Jeannie Tiller, Dr. George Tiller's wife of nearly 35 years.

"They're not only chilling the First Amendment of the Constitution, they're raping the whole Constitution," said Regina Dinwiddie, a Kansas City abortion opponent and friend of Roeder.

She said the move wouldn't stop those who are trying to help Roeder.

"We have other plans that I’m not at the discretion to say right now," she said. "This is money for Scott Roeder so he can have a true defense. They're trying to shoot down the truth of what went on behind Tiller's closed doors and fenced gates, but it's not going to work."

Chilling effect? I think not. First of all, the Constitution restricts what various American governmental bodies can do. eBay is not a government body (even though the creator of eBay was haphazardly recommended by John McCain as Treasury Secretary during a presidential debate last year). They can restrict speech all they want. Second, raising money for an attorney is fine; however, the manner in which one does that might not be either legal or all that Constitutional (let alone tasteful).

The truth about what went on behind Dr. Tiller's doors is quite complex. Dr. Tiller provided abortions for women, most of which happened in the first trimester of pregnancy (around quickening, the fairly traditional line at which abortion was no longer legal). Of the second and third trimester abortions he provided, he did not terminate all pregnancies. He provided legal abortions (ones that would be illegal were turned away), and he wouldn't terminate pregnancies for uncertain women (at his funeral, I met a woman who, 15 years ago, went for an abortion and he almost didn't do it because he felt she wasn't certain she really wanted one). For women whose pregnancies he did not terminate, he offered adoption services, including finding her a place to stay in Wichita until she was ready to place her child for adoption. He provided late abortions for teenage girls (whose abortions tend to be later in pregnancy for various reasons) and women in need of abortions for their health and well-being within the law. If women could not afford her abortion, he would help them out, including helping pay for travel and reducing the cost of his medical services. He did not terminate pregnancies willy-nilly because someone wanted to fit into a prom dress or he wanted the cash. He did not take pride in murdering babies; he took pride in helping women. Law & Order might try to accuse him of killing already born babies, but that just didn't happen. No matter what Spitz, Leach, Dinwiddie, Newman, or Roeder claim. And that's the reality of what happened behind Dr. Tiller's doors.

We'll continue to follow this story since they will continue to try to raise these funds. But no matter what they do, the money will go to the State of Kansas, not to whatever lawyer they choose.

eBay stands by their rules while Roeder's friends stand by their assassin

eBay pulls the plug on auction planned for Roeder legal defense

Thanks to everyone who contact eBay over the last two days! They have announced that they will not allow the auction to take place.

Based on the details we know about the anticipated listings, we believe these would violate our policy regarding offensive material. eBay will not permit the items in question to be posted to the eBay site, and they will be removed if they are posted.

No word yet from Roeder's fellow terrorists if they will try to host the auction someplace else or just blow up eBay for not doing what they want

eBay pulls the plug on auction planned for Roeder legal defense

Rachel Maddow Takes On Domestice Terrorism Auction

Rachel Maddow had a great analysis of the terrorism auction planned for Scott Roeder.

Rachel Maddow Takes On Domestice Terrorism Auction

Tell eBay No Auction For Scott Roeder (Updated)

As we reported the Kansas City Star has gotten word that several domestic terrorists plan an eBay auction to raise funds for Scott Roeder. Don't Let This Happen!

Please contact eBay and ask them to step up now and announce that they will not let an auction that glorifies murder taken place.

You can send a message through the eBay website. You can also write to: eBay Corporate Headquarters, 2145 Hamilton Avenue, San Jose, California 95125.

We've also found two phone numbers to call: 1-800-322-9266 and 1-888-749-3229. eBay's company hours are 7:30 AM to 5:30 PM, Pacific time, Monday through Friday.

Update: You can E-mail Ebay at ebayinc@ebay.com and press@ebay.com

Tell eBay No Auction For Scott Roeder (Updated)

Auction Planned to Raise Money for Scott Roeder's Defense

The Kansas City Star reports that anti-choice forces are planning an online auction to raise funds to hire a new defense team for Scott Roeder.

Leach and others would like to help Roeder hire a lawyer to present what is known as a necessity defense. That strategy would argue that Tiller was killed to prevent a greater harm — killing babies. Other anti-abortion activists charged with violent crimes have tried to use such a defense but with little success.

The number of terrorists making donations is scary to say the least. Dave Leach, Shelly Shannon, even Scott Roeder himself. Dinwiddie (photo right) is a friend of both Scott Roeder and Paul Hill, another convicted domestic terrorist.

“This is unique,” said Regina Dinwiddie, a Kansas City anti-abortion activist . . . . “Nobody’s ever done this before. The goal is that everybody makes money for Scott Roeder’s defense.”

Roeder said in a phone interview that he was excited about the auction.

“I think it’s great,” he said. “I appreciate all of the efforts going into that. I’m all for anything that might bring some donations in.”

But he declined to comment about whether he would use such a defense.

According to the Kansas City Star, eBay would not say if they would allow the auction or not.

Auction Planned to Raise Money for Scott Roeder's Defense

Complaint/Information Against Roeder

Here is the Complaint/Information filed against Roeder.

Complaint/Information Against Roeder

The efforts to terrorize

Remember last month when Operation Rescue told everyone they were days from closing and then a couple days later blamed the media for lying about their claims? Today, they have once again reminded everyone that "Operation Rescue is Not Dead Yet". I can't help but have images from The Holy Grail pop into my head. Musings on timely demises aside, some are left to wonder what they're talking about as they have once again claimed to be ready to announce "an exciting new project that will rock the abortion cartel back on their collective heels" while they continue to pursue "yet-to-be-published investigations of other abortionists in several other states" (in addition to their one targeting Dr. Carhart). Their office, which once had 9 employees but now have 4 according to Newman in the AP, "is as busy as it ever has been." Really?

The fundraising email hit inboxes late on the 14th of September. Apparently, their lack of money meant the project they had planned to launch "in the next 30 days" was delayed. Now, it's "in the coming weeks". What have they done in the last 30 days? Launched IAM71, an online activist project to tell Congress 71% of Americans do not support tax-funded abortions? The number comes from a Zogby poll from last year (reading their site for similar polls shows opinions change drastically depending on how the question is stated going from 69% opposed to 51% opposed in the same poll). Also found on their site? Top 10 reasons why pro-choice side is wrong (with no similar post for why the "pro-life" side is wrong) and a poll saying 71% of parents "oppose 'normalizing' homosexual relationships". Don't know that I entirely trust their statistics. Wiley Drake, who prayed for Obama's death and said Dr. Tiller's assassination answered his prayers, weighs in on the project, encouraging people to participate. Randall Terry called it a waste of time. According to OR's Twitter page, the project was launched on October 2nd, though the website says it has been up since August 31st. But Operation Rescue has never been known for their accuracy in reporting.



While I enjoy mocking the incredibly lackluster IAM71 project, I'm really still sitting here wondering what Operation Rescue is doing that they needed money for and are working harder than ever at. Other than incorrectly calling Jim Poullion's murder similar Roeder's. They're so busy with so many things happening, so many clinics they're closing, that they barely update their website with their many adventures.

I have no doubt they're working on something, some moderately new way to terrorize providers and take away women's rights (in the name of "saving" women's lives). And I have no doubt it's underhanded, and they will not commit any obviously illegal act to do it. They leave that up to other people. People like Michael Griffin, Shelley Shannon, Paul Hill, James Kopp (suspected in several shootings and convicted of one murder), John Salvi, and Eric Rudolph. And, for all intents and purposes, Scott Roeder who has all but admitted he killed Dr. Tiller. Some "Prisoners of Christ" lists I've unwittingly ran into are already asking for prayers for him. Of course, Don Spitz (snarkily pictured above) of Army of God and David Leach of Prayer & Action News and distributor of the Army of God manual are all over the place proclaiming his guilt.

Anti-choice terrorist sites regularly post the home addresses and other critical information about employees and volunteers at abortion clinics. This information has been used to stalk, harass, intimidate, and abuse clinic employees and their families at home, work, out on the town, and even their children in school. Without this in mind, the Oklahoma state legislature has passed a measure to put women's information online, short of their name and address, when they get an abortion in state. The Young Turks points out how terrifying this law could be.

I wouldn't be surprised if Operation Rescue, Kansas Coalition for Life, and Kansans for Life (among others) attempt to pass something similar in Kansas this upcoming legislative session. Roeder's murder of Dr. Tiller already makes it more difficult for Kansas women (and women across the country) to seek abortion care; what would happen if Kansas passed a law similar to Oklahoma? I really don't want to find out.

The efforts to terrorize

Thank You Wichita Eagle

Thanks go out to the Wichita Eagle for calling Star Parker on her comparison of domestic terrorist Scott Roeder to Nat Turner. As we reported earlier Ms. Parker believes the number one issue for African-Americans is not racism but their "sexually immorality." This women who has had 4 abortions but wants to ban them for other women went on to compare Roeder to Nat Turner and abortion to the Holocaust. The response of the Wichita Eagle says it all.

Most pro-life groups, including Operation Rescue, condemned the murder of Wichita abortion doctor George Tiller and didn’t try to rationalize it in any way. Yet “conservative crusader” Star Parker, speaking Monday as part of the Civic Engagement Lecture Series at Wichita State University, compared accused killer Scott Roeder to Nat Turner, who led an uprising against slavery in 1831. She said that Roeder illustrated the hopelessness among those who oppose abortion. On the contrary, Tiller’s murder illustrates the danger of inciting unstable people with reckless rhetoric. (emphasis added)

Thank You Wichita Eagle

Star Parker Goes Off The Rails

All ills of society spring from our immorality. So said Star Parker at a recent presentation in Wichita. [Columnist: Social ills spring from immorality (Wichita Eagle)] Maybe in part she might have something here. But, Ms. Parker couldn't let such an allegation stand without running it right off the rails of logic when she "compared the killing of a Wichita abortion provider to the violence of the anti-slavery movement . . ." WHAT!?!

This from a women who "grew up" as a single mother (yeah, bad writing on that one I know but I just quote it) who has had 4 abortions. So, when she wanted to decide what was best for her body, 4 TIMES, it was okay. But now, don't trust women to decide what legal medical care is best for them.

"I do not believe the No. 1 problem confronting African-Americans is racism," Parker told the audience. "I believe the No. 1 challenge confronting African-Americans is sexual immorality."

Abortion and AIDS are what threatens African-American communities, Parker said.

Do we really need to go on to show how unhinged this women is? Okay, there is more.

A question about the shooting death of Wichita abortion provider George Tiller led Parker to say that accused killer Scott Roeder illustrated the hopelessness among those who oppose abortion.

"I believe we are creating an environment where people are going to feel threatened," Parker said.

She compared Roeder to Nat Turner, who led an uprising against slavery in the 1831 uprising that left 55 people dead.

"It's also just as horrible to treat this man as a hero," she said of Tiller.

Parker compared abortion to slavery and the Holocaust.

"God will answer this, just as he did with slavery and the Holocaust," she said. "Then he will let history take over and your grandchildren will ask, 'What did you do about it?'"

To compare a legal medical procedure to the Holocaust is just wrong! The killing of millions of Jews, gays, gypsies, and other "undesirables" is nothing like having a safe, legal, medical procedure.

geez, now I'm just pissed!

Star Parker Goes Off The Rails

Coming Soon - Who's Who

We've been pulling together all the information we can find on the anti-choice folks attending Roeder's court appearances, backing him, and giving him information on Dr. Tiller's location (that's you Cheryl). Soon we'll be exposing these terrorists and terrorist supporters to the light. Keep watching!

Coming Soon - Who's Who

We're Now On Facebook

Roeder Watch is now on facebook. Send us a friend request and we'll gladly approve you. Just another way to stay informed with what is going on.

We're Now On Facebook

Deadline set for Roeder case motions

The Wichita Eagle reports that Judge Wilbert has set a November 13th deadline for filing pretrial motions. December 9 and 10 have been set aside for hearings on any motions that may be filed.

Deadline set for Roeder case motions

Army of God chastises churches for having Dr. Tiller

Donald Spitz is at it again. He sent a letters to Reformation Lutheran Church -- for "allowing" Dr. Tiller to serve as usher -- and College Hill United Methodist Church for hosting Dr. Tiller's funeral. According to the Kansas City Star, Spitz also sent the letters to Scott Roeder.

“You’re supposed to bring your brother to repentance, not accept what they’re doing,” he said. “It’d be no different than if you knew someone was a thief in your congregation and you just welcomed him in and didn’t say anything to him whatsoever.”

About Reformation Lutheran, Spitz had this to say (of what was published, that is):

"Why would you allow a babykilling abortionist like George Tiller to serve as an usher in your church without informing him his eternal soul was at stake for the sins he was committing?"

You "have failed in your responsibility towards the position He has placed you in and have brought damnation onto yourselves," Spitz told the pastors.

And in a phone interview with Judy Thomas:

"If Reformation Lutheran Church had done its job and brought George Tiller to repentance, he would be alive and the babies he killed would be alive ... But George Tiller received his just reward, and Reformation Lutheran Church is to blame for his blood, and the blood of the children he murdered is on their hands."

This is the typical view of anti-choice zealots. It's not *their* fault Dr. Tiller died. It's his church's fault, his family's fault, his friend's fault; it's Nola Foulston's and Paul Morrison's fault for not fully prosecuting him for his "crimes"; and, most importantly, it's Dr. Tiller's fault. If he hadn't been providing this service to women, he wouldn't have been murdered.

But that's not how the world works. No matter how unpopular your job or life is, so long as it's legal, no one deserves to be mistreated, let alone die for doing their job.

Spitz also sent a letter to CHUM, saying "Instead of standing up as a servant of the Lord and speaking out against this mass murderer, you have praised him as being a Christian, which is blasphemous."

Army of God chastises churches for having Dr. Tiller

Roeder trial moved to January 11th

Scott Roeder's trial has been moved up to January 11th, according to the AP

WICHITA, Kan. - The trial of the man accused in the killing of Wichita abortion provider George Tiller has been rescheduled to Jan. 11.

The Sedgwick County District Attorney's office announced the new date Wednesday. Scott Roeder's trial had previously been scheduled to begin Jan. 25.

Roeder is accused of shooting Tiller on May 31 as the doctor was ushering during Sunday morning services at his Wichita church.

The 51-year-old suspect is charged with first-degree murder and aggravated assault.

Roeder trial moved to January 11th

Todd Tiahrt and Scott Roeder

Earlier, we reported (briefly) that Todd Tiahrt had sent a Senate campaign letter to Scott Roeder at an old address. Steve Kraske of the Kansas City Star reports a campaign spokesman said “Oh great … We’ll make the vendor aware of it.”

My Commitment to:

Mr. Scott Roeder
Overland Park, KS

Halting moral decay in America is imperative and will be a top priority during my service in the United States Senate. I pledge to you to fight for the rights of the unborn, for traditional marriage, and to allow blocking trash on the Internet and in the media.

I will oppose the ACLU and those who wish to remove “In God We Trust” from currency and as our national motto, the 10 Commandments from our courthouses, Boy Scouts from public facilities, and “Under God” from our Pledge of Allegiance.

Congressman Todd Tiahrt

Boy Scouts, the 10 Commandments, traditional marriage, a clean internet, In God We Trust, and Scott Roeder, all things Todd Tiahrt is committed to.

Click the image to see it full-sized:

Todd Tiahrt and Scott Roeder

Operation Rescue desperate for money. Or not.

Monday night, Operation Rescue sent out a fundraising letter that, among other things, admitted Dr. George Tiller’s death cost them money.

You see, this summer has been brutal for Operation Rescue. Not only did George Tiller's death throw everybody in the pro-life movement for a loop (and especially us), but the economic crisis our nation is suffering from has brought our financial support to nearly a halt.

We're now so broke (as the saying goes), we can't even pay attention.

Seriously. We struggle to pay every bill. I had to borrow money just to send you this letter[.]

Troy Newman told The Associated Press they’ve cut back their staff from 9 to 4 employees in the last year and that they typically operate with a $600,000 budget but donations are down 30-40% this year. According to their 990s through 2006, Operation Rescue’s largest year was 2005 when they used Terri Schiavo’s name to rake in $500,000. The Pitch points out that in 2007, Newman sent out a fundraising letter insisting they were several thousand dollars in the hole and about to close, which is only slightly different than this time.

Thursday, Newman made the anti-choice media rounds announcing the AP article he was interviewed for exaggerated, their demise is ”grossly overrated,” and on their Twitter account, fundraising letter went out two weeks ago but the email was delayed. You see, they received an overwhelming amount of support from their donors so the doors are staying open. After all, “in the next 30 days, we're planning to launch the most ambitious and most significant project in our entire history.” They’re really upset the media is reporting on their email, not on their work. I’m still trying to figure out what the hell their work is that costs $600,000 a year. Harassment is expensive, yo.

The “pro-life” movement continues to distance itself from Roeder. Obviously, finding convicted domestic terrorist Cheryl Sullenger’s name and phone number in Roeder’s car doesn’t make Operation Rescue look very good. At first, she denied contact and later admitted it. Roeder insists he has donated thousands to Operation Rescue, though Newman has denied this saying he can’t find Roeder’s name in their database of 50,000 donors. LifeNews.com referred to Roeder as a “militia activist” as if the militia doesn’t have anti-abortion beliefs. OneNewsNow.com doesn’t even report on Roeder though does quote Newman as saying Dr. Tiller’s death was not the public relations nightmare the AP made it out to be. Though having ties to Shelley Shannon and Paul Hill (while he was here for Shannon’s trial) along with having a convicted domestic terrorist on staff might have damaged their reputation long before Roeder called Sullenger so he could better stalk Dr. Tiller.

There remains little doubt Operation Rescue played a part in Roeder’s decision and ability to assassinate Dr. George Tiller. A federal investigation was announced in June though we haven’t heard anything about that one yet. Several Wichitans are protesting outside Operation Rescue’s headquarters, a former abortion clinic they falsely claim to have closed, to remind them of their part in this heinous crime and for the years of harassment they volleyed at Women’s Health Care Services and its employees over the years.

As for Roeder, his trial has been postponed until January. That gives him plenty of time to further incriminate himself in the media.

Also of interest, Representative Todd Tiahrt sent out a mass fundraising request for his Senate campaign. It talks about fighting “for the right of the unborn”. Who was it addressed to? Scott Roeder, of course! Stay classy, Republicans!

Operation Rescue desperate for money. Or not.

Scott Roeder's trial to be delayed until January.

The Wichita Eagle is reporting Scott Roeder's trial is indeed postponed.

WICHITA — Scott Roeder, the man charged with killing a Wichita abortion doctor, won't go to trial until at least next year, the Sedgwick County District Attorney's office said this morning.

Roeder was scheduled to go on trial Monday, charged with first-degree murder in the May shooting death of George Tiller.

Roeder's new trial date has been set for Jan. 25, 2010.

Tiller was shot to death inside Reformation Lutheran Church, where he was serving as an usher, on the last Sunday in May.

Late-term abortion procedures at Tiller's clinic had made him a longtime target of protests by abortion opponents.

Scott Roeder's trial to be delayed until January.

Trial to Be Delayed

The Wichita Eagle just posted this report that Scott Roeder's trial will in fact be delayed.

WICHITA, Kan. - The trial of the man accused of killing abortion provider George Tiller is expected to be continued to a later date.

Fifty-one-year-old Scott Roeder is scheduled to go to trial Monday on charges of first-degree murder and aggravated assault in the May 31 shooting at Tiller's church.

Georgia Cole, spokeswoman for the Sedgwick County District Attorney's office, said on Thursday that attorneys in the case are working to set a new trial date.

Defense attorney Mark Rudy could not be immediately reached Thursday, but he said two weeks ago he would be asking for a continuance.

Trial to Be Delayed

We Knew It Was Coming

It was only a matter of time before someone supporting Roeder posted a comment. Armored Saint posted a comment calling Roeder an American Hero. Okay, we're done laughing. The Army of God "signature" sums this comment up.

We Knew It Was Coming

Trial Schedule Update

Just checked at the courthouse. Trial is still set for the 21st. More than one source tells us it will be continued (as expected). Looks like they are just waiting until the last minute for it happen.

Trial Schedule Update

Suggested Readings

If your looking for some interesting background readings, here are a few suggestions from The Southern Poverty Law Center.

Terror from the Right 75 plots, conspiracies and racist rampages since Oklahoma City

Anti-Abortion Extremism Doctor's Alleged Killer Had 'Sovereign' Ties

Anti-Abortion Extremists 'Patriots' and racists converge

Anti-Abortion Violence Two decades of arson, bombs and murder

The Southern Poverty Law Center does great work, please consider giving them a donation.

Suggested Readings

Why No Death Penalty?

Serena at Feminists For Choice asked Wednesday, "Should Scott Roeder Face the Death Penalty?" As she noted, under Kansas law the death penalty is not an option in Roeder's case. Why not? He committed a terrorist act, isn't that enough? Simply put, none of the criteria are met.

In Kansas to be charged with capital murder a person must commit an intentional and premeditated murder that also meet one of seven qualifying factors:

(1) during a kidnapping for ransom,
(2) Contract or agreement to kill someone,
(3) By an inmate in a correctional facility,
(4) during the course of certain sex crimes such as rape,
(5) of a law enforcement officer,
(6) of more than one person, or
(7) child under 14 during a kidnapping with the intent to commit a sex offense.

Since none of the factors are applicable, Roeder was charged with first degree as opposed to capital murder. What do you think? If it were possible, should Roeder receive a death sentence? Post a comment and let us know what you think.

Why No Death Penalty?

Justifiable Homicide? (Part 2)

We've previously talked about the statute governing defense of another (i.e. justifiable homicide in Kansas). A plain reading of the statute is clear that Scott Roeder will not be able to claim he was defending the "unborn" as justification for his assassination of Dr. Tiller. Beyond the plain reading of the statute, Kansas Supreme Court opinions on the statute leave no doubt that this "defense" has no merit.

The first thing we have to know is that there are very few cases where "defense of a third party" is asserted in the appellate opinions. More often, it is a claim of self defense. The standard is the same however and appellate opinions on both are applicable here.

There are two inquires that must be made:

The first inquiry examines a defendant's subjective belief and requires evidence indicating that the defendant honestly and sincerely believed it would be necessary to kill [to protect a third party] because of an aggressor's imminent use of unlawful force. The second inquiry is objective and requires evidence showing that a reasonable person in the defendant's situation would have perceived the necessity of killing [to protect a third party]. State v. Walters, 284 Kan. Syl. 3, 159 P.3d 174 (2007).

Under this legal standard, Roeder has no chance of claiming "justifiable homicide."

Look at the subjective portion. For our purposes we'll grant Roeder an "honest and sincere" belief that he had to kill to protect a third party. But even under the subjective portion of test (the part that should be the easiest for a defendant to meet) Roeder has problems.

1. Dr. Tiller would have to have been an aggressor for this to even apply. Passing out the church bulletin on Sunday morning is hardly an aggressive act.

2. Dr. Tiller was not using "unlawful force." He was passing out bulletins in his church. Even if we, as the defense will no doubt argue, make this about abortion - it's not unlawful. In fact, that is the very problem Roeder and his fellow terrorists have is that it is lawful!

3. Finally, there was nothing imminent. Dr. Tiller was not in his clinic. He was not with a patient.

Even if Roeder could get past the subjective portion of the test, the objective portion would deny him his bully pulpit. A "reasonable person" (that is the average guy on the street, not the average terrorist) would never perceive that killing was necessary in this case.

The long and the short of it, we can't see any legal way that Judge Wilbert can allow this defense to be argued. Oh, Roeder's fellow terrorists will claim judicial activism, that the D.A. bought off the judge, and kinds of other idiocy. But, in truth the law will simply prevail over terrorist activity!

Justifiable Homicide? (Part 2)

Roeder Linked to Operation Rescue

Rachel Maddow lays out the link between Scott Roeder and Operation Rescue.

Roeder Linked to Operation Rescue

Court Filings

The Sedgwick County District Attorney's office has set up a webpage with at least some of the filings in the case. Right now they have copies of the media order (.tif) and the complaint (pdf).

Court Filings

Trial Date

We checked with the court today and the trial is still set for September 21. They still expect it to be continued. Unclear if it will go to trial the end of this year or early next year.

Trial Date

The Forgotten Victims

When we think of of the victims Scott Roeder has left behind we remember Dr. George Tiller and his family. Many of us also think of the women who now have less ability to obtain legal medical care they need. But we often forget a group who are injured just as much - Scott Roeder's family.

Neither Roeder's ex-wife nor his son asked to be drug into this. To be questioned by the FBI. To have people wonder if you're like him or could you have prevented his terrorist activity. We can only imagine what they go through on a daily basis. They are the lost victims in all of this. The ones people don't think about but who have been hurt just as truly and deeply as any other.

So, when you say your prayers tonight, include Roeder's family. They deserve our support too.

The Forgotten Victims

Insanity Defense? (Part1)

We've been asked about the possibility of Scott Roeder using an "insanity defense." For reasons we'll explain in part 2 we don't think this is likely.

In Kansas the "insanity defense" has been replaced with "mental disease or defect." A person found "not guilty by reason of mental disease or defect" is not released back into society (at least not immediately) but is instead committed to the State Security Hospital in Larned.

We'll get the law and post more specifics in Part 2.

Insanity Defense? (Part1)

Justifiable Homicide? (Part 1)

There has been a lot of talk about whether Scott Roeder will try to use a “justifiable homicide” defense in his case. It’s a pretty safe bet that is what he’ll try, the question is can he.

Kansas does not have “justifiable homicide” per se. Kansas Statute Annotated (K.S.A.) 21-3211 provides for use of force in defense of a person. The statute states, in relevant part:

(a) A person is justified in the use of force against another when and to the extent it appears to such person and such person reasonably believes that such force is necessary to defend such person or a third person against such other’s imminent use of unlawful force.

(b) A person is justified in the use of deadly force under circumstances described in subsection (a) if such person reasonably believes deadly force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to such person or a third person.

What this means for Scott Roeder is that to claim he was defending a third person from Dr. George Tiller he will have to be able to establish:

1. That he reasonably believed that the use of force was necessary;
2. That he reasonably believed that he had to use deadly force;
3. That had he not used deadly force, there would have been imminent death or great bodily harm by Dr. Tiller to a third person.

That all seems straight forward, and to Roeder’s terrorist brethren it’s a clear case. But, when you look at the law in Kansas and how the statute is legally applied, it’s not what they claim. We’ll look at the specifics of a third part defense in part 2.

Justifiable Homicide? (Part 1)

Alan Combs talks to Dave Leach and Roeder's ex-wife calls in

Right Wing Watch ran a story today where Alan Combs talked to Dave Leach about justifiable homicide. Listening to Leach, I'm very confused (reading his "brief" confused me greatly; I thought I was from another planet). Apparently, finding Roeder not guilty will prevent further abortion providers'. Umm, yea.

Leach says he supports damaging abortion clinics. No, wait, he thinks it's "a good idea to save lives", and Scott Roeder's actions were "the proper thing". But he wrote the brief to preserve Roeder's right to a trial by jury (which hasn't been selected yet). He's "sorry it has to be done that way," stopping abortion through murder, but he doesn't support people going out and killing providers. Below are some quotes. I've taken out Colmes' parts. He kept asking why a successful necessity defense wouldn't make it easier to go out and kill other providers.

"Nothing can be more illegal than what courts have done to keep abortion legal. They've denied the right to trial by jury in a hundred thousand abortion prevention cases, and I'd like that to come to a stop. In Scott's case."

A hundred thousand? Is he talking about FACE violations? Guess that means trying to ensure women have access to health care means those trying to stop them have been denied a right to trial by jury. I wonder how many of those hundred thousand plead guilty to lesser charges ...

"If this brief prevails, no one will ever have a reason to shoot another abortionist. Because if the necessity defense is allowed to go to the jury, if the judge breaks down and tells the jury the only contested issue of the trial -- which is the necessity defense -- it'll be easy for people in the future to shut down abortion clinics by just sitting in front of their doors without fear of arrest."

Again, he seems to be talking about FACE violations. I'm not certain how finding murder acceptable would suddenly overturn a federal law protecting women's health care centers.

"It might not go that way. If the judge does give the defense to the jury, the jury might say 'well, you know, abortion is a harm, a terrible harm, but it's not harmful enough to justify killing an abortionist.'"

Most people believe this as is. But this would put the abortion provider, not their accussed killer, on trial.

"There's two reasons. The second reason is if Scott actually is found innocent by the jury, that does not mean that anyone else who does the same thing will be found innocent. If he is found innocent--"

"If the only reason that a jury would find Scott innocent, that's after they are given the defense, would be because they find Tiller's abortions are much more heinous than other abortionists. Normally, I wouldn't expect a jury to find it justified to kill an abortionist -- that's pretty extreme. Tiller's cases are pretty extreme, too. He's probably the most notorious abortionist in the country."

So it's all Dr. Tiller's fault. And he deserved it.

Later, Roeder's ex-wife, Lindsey Roeder, called the show. She had heard Leach would be on, was listening, and had to call in. Colmes was not expecting this! She was less than pleased with Leach even going so far as to say she hopes she never meets him (you and me both!). She called just to say Roeder is getting a trial by jury (it just hasn't happened yet). Also interesting is her saying she didn't feel comfortable saying she's pro-choice until he was locked up, and she's still a little iffy about it now.

She did say, and this has been said repeatedly, that Roeder suffered from a mental illness. Early in their relationship, he was quite the average guy. But at some point, he started giving their living funds to a televangelist. He became obsessed with sending money to this man and at some point blamed taxes and the government for their lack of money. From here, he began getting involved in radical movements. This is not what makes one insane. An irrational jump in logic is not the only hallmark of mental illness. I am not a psychologist of any stripe, but unwilling to take responsibility for your actions seems to be a quite human trait. If bad reasoning and lack of responsibility qualified one as "mentally ill," everyone would be at one point or another. When one sees themselves as "sane," it's quite easy to see someone else as "insane". It's just one way we use to make ourselves feel like we could never carry out the same actions.

But I digress. Definitely take the time to listen to her call.

Alan Combs talks to Dave Leach and Roeder's ex-wife calls in

Roeder tries to get a new attorney while his Bible group proclaims his innocence

As we knew was coming, Scott Roeder is trying to turn his trial into a stage for his belief that killing abortion providers is justifiable homicide. He's not just weighing it, but he has written to Paul Hill's attorney, Michael Hirsh, to represent him. Hirsh, for his part, is debating it. He previously represented Regina Dinwiddie, notorious Kansas City-area anti-choice protester. Upon hearing of Dr. Tiller's death, Dinwiddie said she was "glad".

We've known Scott Roeder was part of the Sovereign Citizen Movement which has connections with the Montana Freemen and Christian Identity. But new information has emerged regarding his religious practices. Roeder identified as a Messianic Jew. This is why he instructed his son to call Jesus "Yeshua". Probably why he had no problem stalking a man in church, shooting him, and then threaten two other men. Another reason he didn't belong to a church is because religious groups recognized by the government are corrupted. Which is why he left Or HaOlam Messianic Congregation in Overland Park several years ago.

Roeder's former roommate, Tim Parks, disagreed with Roeder's theology (describing it as "plucked from air"), but believe Roeder is being framed by the government. And Roeder's beliefs were plucked from air? We're all for innocent until proven guilty, but being framed by the government? Really?

Another of Roeder's roommates, Michael Clayman, said Roeder often talked about justified homicide. He also says Roeder wants to use the courtroom as a stage for his beliefs.

When someone says murder is okay, it's time to report them. When does wishful thinking turn into murderous action?

Also of interest: Abortion Stigma Affects Doctors' Training And Choices. But not a terrorist, right?

Roeder tries to get a new attorney while his Bible group proclaims his innocence

E-Mail Your Questions

Have a question about the law in Kansas? Want to know more about the parties in the case? You can now reach us by E-mail. We'll try and answer your questions here (or via a private reply when appropriate). Fair warning, if you send hate mail, don't be surprised to see it and your E-mail address posted publicly!

E-Mail Your Questions

"Prayer & Action News" publisher hopes to free Roeder

From RH Reality Check and the Iowa Independent, Dave Leach has prepared a proposed brief in defense of Scott Roeder's actions when he assassinated Dr. George Tiller.

The mindset behind it is the one that drives anti-choice extremists to vandalize and destroy buildings, stalk clinic employees and pro-choice activists, and kill abortion providers: taking a life is wrong, of course, but it saved lives so was necessary. This defense hedges upon Roeder admitting he killed Dr. Tiller (which he has all but said), and while others have tried to use it to justify their killing of abortion providers, it has never been allowed in court because abortion is legal. In fact, restricting a woman's access to abortion is a federal crime under the Freedom of Access to Clinic Entrances, or FACE, Act. It is this law, designed to protect clinics and patients, that Roeder routinely flaunted and that the FBI did not follow up on in the weeks leading up to Dr. Tiller's death.

Shelley Shannon had tried to use this defense when she shot Dr. Tiller in 1993. It was not allowed in court, and she was not allowed to bring up abortion.

Abortion is an emotional issue, and I for one am glad it isn't brought up, justified, or demonized in a trial dealing with the murder of a health care provider. Abortion isn't on trial: Scott Roeder's actions are.

"Prayer & Action News" publisher hopes to free Roeder

We're on Twitter

You can now follow us on Twitter at http://twitter.com/Roeder_Watch

We're on Twitter

Articles of interest -- 8/10/09

Today, Judy Thomas at the Kansas City Star published an interesting story on Roeder's visitors. RH Reality Check had some analysis of the article.

Feminists For Choice posted an article from the preliminary hearing. A couple of other feminist blogs have picked up that Roeder's hearing was attended by anti-choice terrorists (and, according to the KC Star article this morning, convicted anti-choice terrorists).

Articles of interest -- 8/10/09

Scott Roeder had his first appearance

Scott P. Roeder appeared in court today, via closed-circuit TV for his first appearance. His first appearance was standard in that it took only a few minutes to advise Roeder of the charges against him and to determine if he needed/wanted appointed counsel.

Roeder did request counsel and the public defender's office has been appointed to represent him. We've learned that Chief Public Defender Steve Osborne will represent Roeder, no word yet if a second attorney will be assigned but we would expect so given the nature of this case.

Roeder's preliminary hearing is set for June 16th but as anyone who knows the system and how major cases move, it will be continued.

Scott Roeder had his first appearance